Co-Founders Chris Meade & Matt Wheeler appeared on a recent episode of the GameChanger Lacrosse Podcast to discuss the lacrosse recruiting process.
The podcast, started by former UVA & Syracuse standout Joe Yevoli, contains conversations with those who have dedicated their lives to the game of lacrosse. Recent guests have included University of Virginia head coach Dom Starsia and former standout players Rob Pannell and Ryan Boyle.
In this episode, Meade and Wheeler discuss their six years in the recruiting space, communication with college coaches, the role of parents in the recruiting process and much more.
To listen to the podcast, head over to the GameChanger Podcast page. You can read a transcript of the conversation below.
On how the recruiting scene used to look:
Chris Meade: The easiest way to answer that is to relate it back to our personal recruiting experiences. Our experience is probably slightly different than [a Division I player] since we were Division III prospects – although very sought-after DIII prospects [laughs]. I grew up on the South Shore of Long Island and played high school lacrosse. Club lacrosse was not a thing yet. You tried out for Empires [NY State Empire Games], and hoped to get some looks there and at county playoff games. Beyond that, it was really going to one or two of the bigger camps during the summer where you were getting recruited, getting looks from one-off schools, maybe at the Division III level or out-of-region. I think where we came from – growing up in the late 90’s and graduating high school in 2001 – it was much more granular. You really only had reach within your own region. There were limited opportunities to be seen, and you were much more reliant on the contacts that your coach had, guys he played with growing up or in college. Some of the outreach you were doing was still based on sending physical letters, sending VHS tapes – which makes me sound really old. I’m only 31 [laughs].
Matt Wheeler: Mine was very similar. I went to high school at the Brunswick School in Connecticut. The biggest difference if you look at where lacrosse was in 2001 to now is that there aren’t that many more programs on the men’s side, but there are far more players. At Wesleyan, we had two players from Washington [state] who were very good, and our coach never recruited them. They showed up on campus to attend school and said ‘Hey, by the way, I play lacrosse.’ They turned out to be great players – one was an All-American. But now, it’s a truly national sport where you have these regions putting talent from the West Coast into these schools primarily on the East Coast. That’s no secret.
I think the main difference is the amount of lacrosse being played is far more by leaps and bounds than back then. Recruiting only really happened between your junior and senior year. Even if you were a high-level prospect – I remember the “stud” players from my school still getting recruited around the same time I was. That was the norm, and that has obviously changed a lot – now any player heading to a top Division I level school is being identified as early as the eighth-grade and committing as soon as freshman year. With the amount you play now, this process truly starts near the eighth grade and carries on based on where you fit in. For me, I was never thinking about college lacrosse until my junior year. I went to goalie camp and maybe one other camp in the offseason. Even in the prime recruiting time between junior and senior year, I went to two camps – and that was that. I played probably two weekends of lacrosse. Now, it’s not an exaggeration to say you’re not only playing through the fall and winter, but the minute the high school season ends, players are competing in anywhere from five to eight events in the summer.
On the recruiting process:
Matt Wheeler: It still is a player-driven process, but the difference between when we went through it and now is the toolkit available is much more impressive. I was sending paper letters and VHS tapes. I wasn’t sending emails. I didn’t even have an email account. That said, the process isn’t any better now – it is just different.
On how the process is different and the pressure felt to play year-round:
Chris Meade: The two biggest trends that are different today than went we went through the process are technology and club lacrosse. That was something in 2000-2001 that did not exist.
Matt Wheeler: It didn’t exist at all. There were Empires for you [in New York] and Super Juniors in Connecticut. There was not one club team I could opt-into to play on a year-round basis.
Chris Meade: As easy as it is to jump on the negative club bandwagon and playing the sport year-round, if you look at the kids who are playing today – we always are shocked returning to Wesleyan and looking at the caliber of player. Not just in the starting roles, but players 25-40 are way better than they were when we were in school. I think in general, the skill level and the athleticism have risen exponentially over the past 10 years. A lot of that can go to playing more and getting better instruction.
That said, there are a lot of negatives to playing year-round, not being able to play other sports. Matt and I were both three-sport athletes in high school. So there are definitely things that are lost by not having those opportunities. I think where we are in the lacrosse world – we are still five to 10 years behind soccer, volleyball and other sports where clubs and academies have grown so much and become a more “professional” experience. We are at a crossroads. You have different influences because it’s largely a middle to upper-middle class game. You tend to have more educated families in the game, and people feel a lot more of the pain because they can feel the different influences from the club and event side that maybe other times has not been so apparent.
Matt Wheeler: It helps to look at how much more competitive it is. You have this funnel where at the bottom are the college roster spots across the three divisions and club teams. It’s not a 1:1 ratio where if a high school in California picks up the sport, a college lacrosse team pops up. That’s not how it works. For various reasons, it takes time for a sport to grow at the college level. The competition has gone up, but the number of seats at the table have not gone up nearly at that rate. You can pull up the US Lacrosse Participation Report where lacrosse is constantly ‘the fastest growing sport on two feet.’ That’s been the story for about 10 years. But you don’t see the same articles that say colleges are adopting lacrosse on the men’s side. So the pressure to hang up the soccer cleats or hockey skates is around. You may hear Coach Starsia at Virginia discussing the importance of multi-sport athletes, and his roster reflects that. Many schools are the same, where chances are a player was likely also outstanding on a football field or basketball court. That’s where you have this pressure. The thought may be that I’m not quite there in terms of a dominant athlete, so I need this extra time on a club team to devote to lacrosse. That’s a decision families have to make.
What we do at SportsRecruits more than anything is to try and get families to see the whole picture. Are you doing that because you think the extra time on the club team will mean you can close the gap with a player that committed to a school as a freshman? They need to look at that and have honest conversations with their coaches and ask if it’s a good investment of time. What are your goals? It’s so important to go into the process with your eyes open. This is the type of player I am; this is what I’m looking for in a college experience; this is what I want to do post-college. Where it becomes a slippery slope is the thought that the extra time is going to close some massive gap that is going to get you to a Division I school when you’re better suited for a Division III program. And guess what? That is fine! We are all going to play lacrosse for four years – maybe some after in the professional game, which is fun. But with lacrosse, there is a very limited career post-lacrosse.
On how to keep a level head knowing the challenges of limited college roster spots:
Chris Meade: The thing that we like to concentrate on is the education aspect. A better-educated consumer or high school lacrosse player is going to be able to understand the bigger picture. The difficult thing with that is you are talking about 15, 16 or 17 year-olds. So our focus is on educating the parents, focusing on what this decision really is about: Is your son or daughter going to be happy on this campus? Is it an academic fit? Then, finally, is it an athletic fit?
It is nice to sit here and say those things, but they are much more difficult in practice. We spend a lot of time with email newsletters, webinars or on-site talks just trying to bang those points home into the heads of parents. Going through the process and looking back on the college lacrosse experience, there are so many decisions that go into it, and trying to understand where you’re going to be as a 22 year-old at the other end. Yes, the lacrosse is important. But the people you are surrounding yourself with, the coaches you are going to spend every day with – those are the things that are really important in the decision.
Matt Wheeler: We do tons of webinars and recruiting seminars. One thing I always like to say – and it’s true with life too – is that you can control what you can control. If a player the town over commits to a school you wanted to go to, you rip your hair out, start playing for two club teams and go nuts. But you are already going about it the wrong way, because you are concerned with what’s happening with someone else. You can control your process. It’s broken down into a few parts. There is a pool of schools that play lacrosse. Which type are you interested in? Big or small? Rural or city? What division? What are your academics? You should be going to the best school you possibly can. You need to do that research. You are in control of who gets your services. The idea of ‘hey, I play lacrosse, I want to go to college, recruit me!’ – that’s not how it works. You need to do the research up front, ask what you are looking for in a college experience.
Look at any college team, on ESPN or wherever – you tend to have a small senior class and a huge freshman class. What do you think happened to the players throughout the process? Once you get there, maybe your priorities change or circumstances change. At the beginning, you can control what you are looking for. But with that, you then need to initiate contact, provide video and your event schedule and create a relationship with the coaches so you aren’t just another player on field X running around. You can control how active you are in your process. The sport is growing at such a rapid rate, but at the end of the day, there are the players at the top – and then it gets grey. If you have never seen a game, it’s pretty easy to identify the best player on the field, but after that, it gets far more difficult. Coaches are in a similar boat. If you’re the one doing the outreach, providing them with video and grades – which are key – they will try to put eyes on you and move them through your recruiting funnel. You can control the steps up to a coach being on a sideline watching your game.
If you do that, you’re in a much better situation than a player or family that is going crazy because they are hearing about others committing and going to too many events to hope to be seen. There are all of these emotions like confusion and stress – but that is often the result of not going into the process without a plan.
On what point a player should start preparing for the recruiting process:
Chris Meade: As a general rule of thumb, we say in ninth grade you should start thinking about it. You should start getting feedback from a high school coach, maybe from family friends who have played the game. You’ll start to get a good idea if the game of lacrosse is something you should take seriously. If you have the potential to play Division I, ninth grade is a good place to get started. Create a list of 15-20 schools, get communication out that you are interested. It sounds completely crazy. But getting grades out from the end of freshman year, updating how your season went and those things are vital. If you are a lower-tier Division I, or Division II or III player, generally you’ll get started during the fall of your sophomore year. Like we said, it sounds completely crazy. For example, I didn’t play a varsity game until the spring of my junior year.
Matt Wheeler: They call it a recruiting ‘process’ for a reason. In this instant gratification era, most want it to be something like ‘I went to an event, my dream school was there when I made a great play, they got in touch with me and offered me a spot in their recruiting class.’ It never happens like that.
Chris Meade: In the case of a player who maybe hit a growth spurt that 15 years ago could have still ended up at a Virginia may now end up at a place like Bucknell, or Lehigh. Realistically, the top five schools won’t have been looking for an undersized player as a freshman, and by the time the spurt happens, their classes may be full.
Matt Wheeler: But you notice that there are teams getting players that schools wish they still had spots for. We get that a lot. You can’t control your size. But again, you can control your outreach. If you’ve communicated with a school consistently, maybe they saw something in your game though you were undersized. Well, if you’ve developed a relationship, you never know. So again, it’s control what you can control. You can’t control your size – you are what you are at a given point. But you can control your outreach. While it gets grey, there are different things coaches identify when scouting.
On how to balance recruiting correspondence to not be a nuisance:
Chris Meade: Before coming up with rules on the frequency of communication, you need to get feedback from your high school coach, or your travel coach, and/or someone who has played at the college level to see where you realistically fall in the grand scheme to see what’s possible. This way, you as a freshman aren’t sending letters to the top five schools when in reality you’re never going to have a realistic opportunity to play there. The best thing that ever happened to me was at a camp after 10th grade; Coach Urick [then] from Georgetown said ‘You’re going to be much happier at a NESCAC school.’ My response was ‘I don’t even know what that is!’ All I heard was ‘You don’t want me at your school.’ But that was the first time I heard that, because there wasn’t really a feedback loop yet. But now, you can get that feedback and it’s more accessible. Then, you start establishing an introductory email going into a season, one or two updates during the season, postseason follow-up, pre-summer tournament schedule.
Matt Wheeler: You develop a cadence. Essentially, you want to find excuses for communicating. Obviously, during the season it’s something like you being pulled up to varsity or had a few good games. At the end of the season, maybe it’s that you now have a new highlight reel and season wrap-up. Pre-event, maybe it’s where you will during the weekend and where to see me play.
Another misconception is the event thing – it’s interesting. Parents often think it’s an equation you can solve with different variables. One of those variables is events, another is club teams, another college visits. In reality, there are number of schools that play lacrosse, a number of spots on those teams and you are one person. So, communicate with the schools in your academic profile. Events are great. But if you aren’t being proactive leading into those events, you aren’t doing it correctly. We have a great post about the irrelevance of the “Coaches in Attendance List” at an event. If you go to an event and look for a cluster of parents, they are taking a picture of the list of coaches at the event and thinking that is the indicator as to whether the trip was worth it for them. Let’s say there are 100 coaches on that list, and 10 schools that the player wants to go to. Parents equate that as a success. But, there’s no guarantee those coaches are seeing you. Maybe the coach was on a different field, getting food, or somewhere else.
The true relevance should be how many of those schools you have been communicating with on a regular basis. The chances of a school you have a relationship with going to see you play are a lot higher than the coach of the school you would like just happening to be on the field where you made a nice play. That is something that happens all the time, the thought that you’ll just be seen. We say you don’t go to a recruiting event to be discovered, you go to be seen by coaches who already know who you are. It helps to be a known entity by the coaches attending. It’s like going to a business conference, posting up in the corner and thinking ‘Well, I’m here let’s network.’ You need to set up meetings, coffee meetings and other things. Same goes for a recruiting event.
On the role of parents in the recruiting process:
Chris Meade: We always say that the player should be the one on the front lines, writing the emails, making the calls and those things. The parents should be there supporting, gently pushing, proofreading, coaching through phone calls – basically, just a support mechanism throughout the process. But all of the outreach should be from the player. When the discussions progress to financial things, questions like how many athletes at a position the coach is recruiting – those are questions a 16 year-old aren’t prepared to ask. There are definitely times where it’s appropriate for a parent to become involved. As a rule of thumb, that time is when it’s down to about three or four schools. You don’t want a parent having financial discussion with 12 different schools. Coaches know each other and talk to each other – you don’t want them talking about how a player’s dad is crazy. We see that all the time. It’s a fine line. My parents had no idea what was going on during my recruiting process. So I think the role is to be as supportive as possible and just keeping things in perspective as to why you are supporting your kids through this decision and why you want them to play lacrosse in college. Hopefully, that is for them to make great friendships, learn life lessons and being in a better place at 22 graduating playing four years of lacrosse as opposed to the thought of spending $6,000 over the past eight years on club lacrosse, events and sticks. It doesn’t always come down to return on investment. That is tough.
Matt Wheeler: We can touch on the scholarship thing as well, but ultimately, it’s the player’s process. They are the ones that will be going to college. The family should obviously be working in tandem with the player. But thinking that you want your child to play Division I so you can other people – look, it’s lacrosse. It’s great. But often parents to make it about themselves. One of the best things parents can do is become educated about the process and put your head in the sand when you hear others talking about it on the sideline, because often, 99% of them know nothing about the process. They are talking about anecdotes and nuggets that probably don’t apply. Again, it’s back to controlling your process. As a family, do the research. Find out which schools are a good fit – they may not be named Duke or Virginia. The most educated consumer in this process is going to win most of the time because it’s going to increase the options they go in with, thus increasing the chances of a better result at the end. Coaches have similar lists – they have a list of 20 goalies and need to get down to two. So going into the process and not being influenced by what’s going on around you is key.
On letting players decide on the school and parents being in a more life lessons and guidance role:
Matt Wheeler: No one ever told me when I was going through the process that we would have 12 freshmen that would result in only five seniors at Wesleyan. There wasn’t anyone letting me know there was a high probability that I wouldn’t be playing lacrosse by senior year. I went in knowing that I really liked the school, that I had a good feeling about it, and that I knew it was the best school I could get into – which would be valuable for the relationships and the network I was able to build with or without lacrosse, that would be something that would pay off down the line. In terms of a life lesson, it’s awesome that parent’s are excited and want to be involved. But there is a high probability that in two years that player may not see the field. It takes a special person to stick out, and just as special to say maybe putting the stick down and picking up a second major would suit me better. So those life lessons are the main roles that parents should play. Under no circumstances – short of maybe significant financial incentive – should you not be going to the best school you possibly can, regardless of what division it is.
Chris Meade: This is a bit tangential, but I was recently married and we are now thinking about moving out to Long Island where we grew up. I deal with tons of different clubs, and thinking about what clubs I would want my kids to play for down the road. It’s an interesting thought; because clubs have different cultures the same way colleges have different cultures. I think parents have the ability to think about different club programs almost as a pre-cursor to expectations at the college level. There is support and expectations built into different club programs that probably lay the tracks for expectations at the college level. So thinking about how the parent can be involved in choosing the right college, you can almost bring it back a few years into what clubs, programs and events I want my child to be involved with where they are going to value these things that by the time they get to college, they are thinking the same way.
On recruiting events and how players should get noticed:
Matt Wheeler: Think of it like marketing, where you have different channels. Events should be one of your channels. If you are showing up at an event and doing nothing else, you’re only using one channel. But if you are using your outreach, your other channel, you’re in better shape. One click of a button on their phone or computer, you have their undivided attention. When you’re at an event, you don’t – it’s hot, it’s windy, there are ten fields, books are flying, parents are yelling – it’s not an ideal place. But you have control over the outreach channel. You can set the table for the event channel to be successful by forging relationships, by reaching out, by providing video, by providing your grades. No high-end academic school is going to plop on a sideline and just start picking kids that are good, because they know how hard it is to get SAT scores and grades for the admissions department. They know that if 40 players up, regardless of lacrosse, maybe two or three that they can even consider. So they have to be efficient with their time, and go field-to-field putting eyes on every kid that communicated with them that both have the grades and the potential based on the video they were provided. They want to leave that list with less on their list than when they started. People think coaches come in with a blank piece of paper and leave thinking it was a great event. They actually come with a list, and cross people out, write notes, evaluate, and then go back to their office and talk with their other coaches. So having that channel set up to be successful is huge.
In terms of events, the club you choose will likely dictate which events you play at. That is part of the evaluation process when choosing a club. Outside of that, you can control which events you go to – they all aren’t created equal. For example, we run a Division III focused event, the D3 Showcase. Guess who isn’t there? Virginia, Syracuse and Duke. There are a number of events where the schools attending will be fairly specific. That is the part about being an educated consumer. That doesn’t mean you heard from your buddy that the event was good – it should be about your process. The theme of being an educated consumer is huge. Don’t do what you think you need to because that is what other people are doing.
Chris Meade: There are a lot of really bad events out there. It’s unbelievable. Now that we have been around this business for six years, sometimes we walk around an event not really understanding the value proposition or how these families think they are at a recruiting event when there aren’t many coaches there.
Matt Wheeler: Sometimes families are not doing any outreach and going to these events where there aren’t any coaches. So both of those channels aren’t being used well.
On how SportsRecruits helps with the process:
Matt Wheeler: There is tons of educational content on the site, things like our recruiting guide that has been downloaded thousands of times. What we set out to build a few years ago – which has morphed into a soccer platform, a field hockey platform, a volleyball platform – our goal has always been to empower student-athletes to pursue their dreams. Part of that is having the tools at your disposal to efficiently go through all of these things that we have talked about. Researching schools, figuring out how schools compare to each other. You need to educate yourself. On the site you can research that using different filters, based on say division and academic selectivity. That returns a list that you can then decipher your interests from.
The next piece is communication. I’m not sure if you’ve ever dug around a school’s website, but finding [coaches’] emails is not the easiest task. So we recommend making that target list of 20-25 schools. Finding all of those email addresses could take hours before you can even send a message. We streamline all of that so you can communicate right through the platform. Everything is tracked, so you can see when a coach is looking at your profile and video. So sending out emails in the old “spray-and-pray” method and not knowing what happens with them – we solve that by tracking all of those engagements. Think of it as almost a LinkedIn for the college recruiting process. We want the family to be educated and in full control of your process from day one. We don’t want that family who has been sending out emails for 18 months and not knowing where they stand. We show you blow-for-blow those correspondences and then focusing your efforts accordingly. You start with a big list – some are going to be interested, some are not. Many schools aren’t going to respond and say thanks but no thanks. Coaches are busy. The growth of the game we discussed also multiples the emails coaches get.
Our members can provide coaches what we call the “complete package” – your information, your video, your grades, your event schedule in one place – goes a long way. The number of emails coaches get that are generic and don’t have any pertinent information go right in the trash. We try to make sure coaches can have an actionable item where it can at least be a yes, no or maybe. Communicating for the sake of communicating isn’t the right way.
On the video aspect of the platform:
Chris Meade: Each profile has a place for a player’s highlight video and full game video. Coaches are interacting with those video resources in two ways. Generally, we regard the highlight reel as the bait that a coach is going to spend 3-5 minutes watching to see how athletic a player is, how skilled they are, what their lacrosse IQ is. Based on that, they may take that next step and zone in on a half game where they can see how a player is against strong competition. They can evaluate that video in terms of off-ball play, how they ride – different things that may not be shown in a highlight video.
The ultimate goal is to provide that coach with everything they need so they can take that next step and contact your club coach or your high school coach, go see you play in person over the summer or in a playoff game. Really just trying to get them to take that next step in one spot.
Matt Wheeler: We have good content on the site based on feedback from Division I men’s and women’s coaches as to what they are looking for in each position. When you get to an event, you can’t control anything but how you play. It should be about just going out and having fun. But when you’re building a highlight reel, you can control what the coach sees. You are sending a message saying ‘Here is what I have.’ Every game has weaknesses, but you want to show them you have some of the skillset that makes up a successful player. We’ve often heard complaints that coaches do not want highlight reels. Great, send them a full game and see what happens – coaches don’t have the time to watch an hour on every player. They are going to watch a highlight reel not as a be-all-end-all, but as a first step in qualifying. Of course they don’t make decisions based on one highlight reel, but even at the highest level, they use it as a way to see players that they are interested in.
The challenge is getting game video to use. It’s not like football where games are always filmed. In lacrosse, you need to be constantly aware and building your video library. The process is getting faster, so even if it’s freshman or JV tape – that’s OK. You have to show the coach something. You can’t wait until you are on Varsity anymore, because the process is nearly over. So you have to be consciously building that video library. It goes back to being that educated consumer. What do I need to get a coach interested in my son or daughter? Video. How can I get video? Hire someone, talk to a coach to see if they are doing it – but don’t go into it thinking video will just magically appear. Folks always call late in the game asking if we happened to film a random game. So building that library means your highlight reel will improve, because you’ll have more clips to choose from. Again – control what you can control. Part of that is ensuring you have the resources to be successful.
On where to go for more information:
Matt Wheeler: You can also visit SportsRecruits.com, or SportsRecruits.co for the corporate page. As mentioned, we have volleyball, field hockey and soccer platforms. We also have a platform we sell into club teams now to help them manage the recruiting efforts of their entire organization. As more emphasis is put on the club – in a sport like soccer, you aren’t even playing high school soccer if you are a good prospect – you are only playing for clubs. In sports like volleyball, and soccer, we have seen that need for a platform for the entire club to be on so the director can keep an eye on all of the players and guide them. So, as Chris mentioned in talking to coaches and getting feedback, that discussion can happen through the site. Club Directors can go in and tag schools for the player. That is all tracked, so after your conversations, those schools you begin contacting the club can see, so they can kind of ride along with you. So we started just as a player platform, but now that club gets a toolbox as well to help the players.
On three things every player should do to prepare for the recruiting process:
Matt Wheeler: The best thing you can do for the recruiting process is having good grades. That doesn’t mean everyone will. To set yourself up for success, don’t take school likely. This is lacrosse, not football or basketball that are funding stadiums and libraries and those things. Work hard in school. If you have a B, try for a B+. Realize that each of those increases in your GPA is going to go a long way. Come test time, use the “one less event, one more SAT prep course” rule. Don’t go to that extra summer event or that second club team – take and pour those resources into an SAT prep course. Realize that a 150-200 point bump in your test scores is going to make a major difference as schools begin to solidify their lists. Go into that process knowing the better your grades and SATs are, the more doors that open. That goes for every level of academics – a little extra effort goes a long way.
Chris Meade: Number two is getting onto college campuses. A lot of kids don’t have a concept of what different schools actually are. Understanding what an urban environment is like – say at Drexel or Penn down in Philadelphia vs. Villanova vs. Bucknell – it is really important as you start to try and envision yourself on a campus. Once you start to understand what these different places actually look like, then it is about understanding what the students there are like. So getting on as many campuses as possible, squeezing them into trips during different events – make sure you are taking time to visit these campuses. Try and meet the kids on the lacrosse teams, because if you are unhappy socially, you won’t be happy on the lacrosse team.
Matt Wheeler: The vibe of going to Colgate is completely different than going to Towson. The surroundings, the interactions of students – it’s all different. The more you can look at things like how close you are to a city vs. wanting to be on a campus – it can help get your list together. The good thing about going to events is often you can knock out a bunch of college visits in close proximity. You don’t need to necessarily do a formal tour, but drive around, walk around and get a feel.
Chris Meade: Another thing I’d add – this is still two by the way [laughs] – when you are getting to the actual point where you’re getting recruited and talking to coaches, getting on campus and not just meeting with the coaching staff but spending time with players on the team, going to classes with them, eating in the cafeteria and doing those things is important. On some level, coaches are professional salesmen. That’s what they do – they get recruits to come to their school. But that freshman or sophomore is going to be able to give you more details into what life is like balancing course loads and classes with lacrosse. Those are going to be the kids you will be spending time with.
The third thing – shameless plug [laughs] – everyone listening should have a SportsRecruits membership, even if you are 40 years old and have one year of eligibility left. We’ll take you [laughs].
Matt Wheeler: Even if you don’t, have a plan. If we people that don’t use our platform but have a plan; that is fine. But please, have a plan. Don’t go through this process and spend all of this money expecting things to happen. College is coming, and it’s going to be the most expensive decision you make outside of buying a house. So whether you use our product or not, we don’t care – well, we care a little – but don’t be a person at an event we see wasting time and money without a plan. If you don’t have a plan, save the money and go to the beach. Don’t go in and spend all of this time and money without a plan.